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NEC #22 - Charles, Mighty Messenger - Questions Co-Creative Design Team - The Hierarchy of Values - May 23, 2014 - Daniel Raphael, Colorado

New Era Conversations #22 – Working with Spirit; Developing Wisdom – May 23, 2014
Teacher:  Charles, a Mighty Messenger


  1. Questions from the South African Co-creative Design Team
  2. What Do We Take with Us to the Mansion Worlds?
  3. Working with Spirit Consciously and Without Expectations
  4. Duality of the Universe
  5. God Centered Metaphysics
  6. Developing Experiences into Wisdom
  7. The Hierarchy of Values
  8. Secularism

TR:  Daniel Raphael
Team members:  Roxanne Andrews, Susan Bryner and Michael McCray
May 23, 2014

Prayer:  [Tape was not running.]   . . . on the whole planet, and we are awed and overwhelmed by the partnership and the responsibilities that you have embraced us with and which we receive with great gratitude.  We know that only through our combined efforts can this world enter into a life that is knowingly and consciously evolved, and so, we thank you so much.  Amen.

CHARLES:  Good morning, this is Charles; it is a pleasure to be with you today.  We have given you much material to think about and to digest, and to, hopefully, realize that your world, your universe is far more complex, and yet quite simple as well.  Let us begin with your first question, please.

Questions from the South African co-creative design team

Roxie:  Charles, I had a delightful message from one of our readers in Pretoria, South Africa.  I am amazed at how much work she has been able to accomplish in regard to what we have been sending to her in transcripts.  She has seven ladies, each are of a different religion, and she started a co-creative design team with them.  She sent me many pages of what they have accomplished, with pictures of the group members; it was quite impressive!  She had a question that she wanted to ask of you:  “I would like to ask Charles about the fate of the missing Nigerian girls and how we can assist, not only the process of having them released, but also in solving the problem of religious fundamentalism posed by Boko Haram, their captors.  I would love to hear our celestial guides speak about the resolution of this matter, and how concerned humans can assist the process.”

CHARLES:  The first question is about the girls.  Yes, we are quite aware of the missing girls and what has occurred with them.  What you will find is that they are being “programmed,” very similarly as Patty Hearst was programmed after her kidnapping by her captors and came to believe in what they said, and even supported what they were doing.  These girls will become adherents to that movement and will disavow their connection with western education, as Boko Haram has put itself against.  What will happen with the girls?  A few that have run away, some were captured and dispatched; others came back and were found.  The majority of them live in fear; they are almost all of a susceptible age to become programmed, conditioned for the mission of Boko Haram.  Many of these girls will never be seen again; some will be seen but as cohorts or companions, or soldiers with Boko Haram.  This is most unfortunate.  Very few of these young women will return to their home societies.

Answering the second question is that we do not involve ourselves in those movements, as they are almost unanimously anti-humanitarian; they are attempts to terrorize the hearts, minds and souls of those people who participate.  Those who are open to our approach would be seen as spies and would be exiled or removed or killed.  They are an extremist organization and very violent.  They see themselves as incredibly pure and even holy, and in complete alignment with the wishes of their movement.

You, dear woman, arguing the most that can be done in such a situation, and that is to help your fellow brothers and sisters to evolve socially, emotionally and spiritually and religiously, and to see past the religions to the oneness that exists among you.  You realize now that the three core values of social sustainability are the values that have sustained your species for over 40,000 years and onwards to 500,000 years from the beginning of your species.  These values are almost unknown to most people, and therefore they have not been able to grow rapidly.  When individuals begin to understand those three core values of the quality of life, growth and equality, and then to apply them consciously to their lives and to their children and community, those environments can change very rapidly.

There is an unconscious urge that seems to emanate from your DNA in your behavior to advance your life’s quality by growing; you begin to engage that consciously, so that all your thoughts and all your decisions are towards improving the quality of your life and growing in a capacity to do so to a better degree.  You are the eminent example that we point to in your society.  This is not something you have to “pound in;” it is not something that you have to proselytize or sell, but something to share by word of mouth, easily, to those people that are open to you and friendly.  You will find that you are living in a social petri dish, where your benevolent virus will grow and benefit everyone, much as your historic scientists discovered penicillin, almost by accident, and so your work is the beginning of “spreading.”  These women are mothers, wives, sisters and they are able to teach their children in their families these truths that benefit everyone.

Yes, of course, there will be people who will attack you physically and who will want to destroy what you have made, and so, you must protect yourself, and you must leave that area if you know this in advance.  How you could help is to remain in consciousness for the oneness of all people, which you demonstrate in your group of women.  Hold this consciousness so that you spread this like you have seen the vapors from carbon dioxide in water, that this cool fog spreads out evenly across the floor and so you see your consciousness doing the same.  This would be pink in color—a light pink—would be vaporous in nature and it would surround all those individuals with whom it comes in contact.  Realize that your consciousness is powerful and that it is uniting; it does not cause separation and isolation, but it causes integration of like-minded people.  Thus, like-minded people will come to you and ask for the truth that you have been exercising, and we ask you to share with them humbly, but powerfully.  Thank you for your question.

Roxie:  Thank you, Charles, from Marthe as well as me.

What do we take with us to the mansion worlds?

MMc:  If we do not take the harmful, negative thoughts and experiences with us to the mansion worlds, what do we take with us?

CHARLES:  You take all the positive and neutral thoughts and experiences with you.  You even take your assumptions.  Everything that you bring with you is either proven wisdom, which will be validated when you get to the other side, or it is grist for the mill of your celestial, morontial education.  Your assumptions will be incredibly useful to you as you reform yourself in your morontial mind.  Your erroneous assumptions will be—not attacked—but will be “massaged” with your team, your groups and instructors, so that all of you benefit from the similar experience involving the revelations for those assumptions.

You will find it is amazing how like-minded you are with your fellow students in your class, and your class may be composed of 5, 6 or 7 individuals; it may be a class of 7,000 all in one auditorium, but you will have an intimate team and class that you will work with; this will be your home group and you will have many things in common so that your learning goes rapidly.  What you discover with your group teacher, others will discover as well, and you will soon realize the process of examining assumptions that leads to those moments of clarity, those “ah-ha” insights that lead you to integrating the truth, beauty and goodness that you will be learning and exposed to in the morontial realm.

It is your awareness, from your “ah-has,” your spontaneous insights that will stick with you.  These are the reformed, educational, bits and pieces from your assumptions that will form who you become in that realm.  You will see many roles that you played in your lifetime that can be useful to your education.  Role-play in your new regard, is also highly important, that eventually, you will become teachers of new ones who come to the teaching worlds.  The student becomes the teacher, and so on.  As you teach, you will be also a student at the same time, or in another situation during the same era.  You will bring many of the things that you have experienced in life that were not negative and were not destructive, but which were unknown, or that you had not thought of, not yet seen in a new way.  Many of your experiences here in the mortal realm are truly instructive, but because of how you were raised, and you have not been taught how to examine these experiences and thoughts that you had, you cannot learn from them.

Some of you are becoming more highly attuned and developed to do this already.  Some of you are now approaching the lower levels of morontial mind and can see from your past experiences that these are lessons, and you gather similar lessons together and you develop a wisdom out of that.  And so, the dots of discord and disharmony were incomplete, but now they become complete and you become whole in your personality.  You find oneness in your own being, and so, as you do this, you will become ready for your next transition, your next evolutionary change that exists within the morontial realm.  This is how you progress; slowly, you build upon your prior experience in the mortal realm and you connect them with your experiences in the morontial realm, to develop more evolved insights and so on.

When this is complete, then you will make the transition to the next life experience.  You recall that there are well over 500 life experience changes that you will experience in the morontial realm, and so, this will occur over centuries and thousands of years of Urantia time, and you will find the newness and freshness to each one of these levels of achievement and to be given a thorough knowledge of what to anticipate through this era of growth.  Yes, you will even—when you become a finaliter—will have recall of the positive aspects of your mortal life, and you will have them and hold them in your memory banks for use as you become an agent within the Corps of Finality.  Some of you will become Mighty Messengers and highly useful to the realms, and you will have this wonderful experiential history to draw upon to make associations with those whom you made contact with on the worlds of time and life.

Working with spirit consciously and without expectations

MMc:  Well, thank you very much.  During our last session, we spoke with Monjoronson, and I apologize for asking a question about something that he said, but I believe you will be able to answer.  He spoke of our consciously working with you—that is the greater “you”—spirit and the consciousness of spirit of this planet, for an outcome without expectation of when that outcome appears, or in what form it appears, he said that this was the way to align ourselves with Michael and Nebadonia.  Would you be willing to tell us more about this, please?

CHARLES:  Yes, of course.  You have been told many things through The Urantia Book, through the Teaching Mission and Magisterial Mission, and these conversations.  You have been given many things to look forward to.  Many of you hold this loosely in your hand.  You anticipate these things to occur, but you have not formulated how they would come to you or your world, or when.  Doing so, holding this loosely and accepting these pronouncements and announcements, allow you to be in alignment with Christ Michael and Nebadonia.  However, when you hold expectations for how these developments may occur, what they may manifest as, and when, is a reflection of your own material-mindedness.  This is your humanness expressing through the thoughts and announcements of Christ Michael and the Triumvirate and others.

This is very much like having a child’s cartoon coloring book: you see the outline of the figures, and so this is the pronouncement of Christ Michael or Nebadonia, or other members of the Triumvirate, and so you think it is incomplete; you think it is not whole, though you may not have this opinion verbalized to others or in your mind.  And so, you see that picture and you think that this child holding this flower, the flower ought to have yellow petals and a black center, with a green stem.  That is your opinion; that is your estimation of what you see in your mind’s eye of that picture.

The pronouncements of Christ Michael and others are similar in that way; they are outlines of what they say will occur, without saying how or when.  So, the human mind always tries to find completion with such incomplete data.  Many of you have a need to fill in the blanks, to say what it is or isn’t, how it might develop, and when.  You are coloring the truth of that outline.  That is what Christ Michael and others have provided to you, is an outline of the grand projects that Christ Michael has—not just proposed—but is now enacting, manifesting in your world.  When you have expectations, that you have conjured or developed in your mind about this outline, you will come into disappointment about it when you see it.  When you see that this flower this child is holding does not have yellow petals or a black center, but actually it is pink with a yellow center, you would become disappointed; it is not how you see it, and so, what the Melchizedeks say that “disappointment, disappointment, disappointment is the fountainhead of spiritual growth,” you must adjust your disappointments to the reality of what is existing.  Few of you can honestly and humbly say, “I was wrong.  My perspective and my view of what Christ Michael has proposed is not correct.”  And so, some of you flip into denial and say, “Oh, this is just so much hooey; this is not real.”  And so this is just the mind of a mortal working to make these things visible to us on these transcripts, thus it is rejected.  Your rejection of Christ Michael’s proposals does not bring those proposals and the enactment and manifestation of them out of existence; they continue on.  It is always the mortal who must adjust their thinking and their beliefs to what is.  What is right now for most of you is that you have no clear idea when it will occur, how it will occur and what it will manifest as.  Our advice is to, as the Buddhist say, to “hold this lightly in your hand without expectations, without projection of your mind’s images.”

MMc:  So this consciousness of working with you and the consciousness of the planet without an expectation of when the outcome will appear, and what form it might take, is the basis of “Ask and you will receive,” and “Seek and you will find?”

CHARLES:  Yes.  Yes it is; that is an exceptionally simple way of looking at it, but is similar.  When you seek, you are holding it in your mind of what it might be, without expectation, and to seek is to look forward to it without knowing what it might be.  With the seeking, you release the when and how, to let spirit bring that to you.  When you seek, you have faith that it is already existent, and so that is the consciousness that is necessary for us to work positively with you in the development manifestation of the Correcting Time programs.

MMc:  What is the outcome that Michael and Nebadonia would like to see?

CHARLES:  The days of light and life!

Duality of the universe

MMc:  Monjoronson spoke about the duality of physics and a seeming duality of the universe and even [in] ourselves.  He said that we simply need to have one foot in each part of the universe to manifest the right and perfect outcome for our lives.  But, he also said that concerning the duality of the universe, that in God’s mind and his mind that all is one.  Would you tell us more about this, please?

CHARLES:  Yes, certainly.  Let us go back before time began to the realm of eternity, which is separate and apart from the infinite universe.  How would God manifest the material universe of time and dimensions from the position of eternity?  That is the essence of your question.  God did this through what you know as the ultimaton, known to others as the Adamic particle or the boson particle.  What your physicists have not realized is that this particle transits between eternity and the material, temporal universe.  It is both parts; it holds the pattern for the completed universe, and it holds the program, so to speak, for the evolutionary, developmental progress of the temporal, dimensional universe to grow from virtually nothing, even the lack of space, into a dimensional universe.

Another error your scientists consistently make is that the universe in finite, that it is expanding and they have no recognition or appreciation for how it is doing that.  But, you have been told, even by your spiritual leaders, that creation is ongoing.  If it existed in time, billions of years ago, it exists in time now, which means that it continues.  God is beyond infinite; God is eternal and God has chosen to discover Itself, the dimensions of Itself through the temporal and material dimensional universe, which will, when it approaches completion in this first phase, that experiential expression will be held in God the Supreme.  Thus, when you are told to have your feet in both realms, it means that you can create like God creates.  I say “like,” rather than “as,” simply because God has control of that energy, whereas you have the capacity to manipulate it.  So, when you use your mind, to direct the development of something outward, or temporally, you are beginning to approach the re-patterning of these ultimaton particles to be amenable to mind action and to reform in time, that which you seek to create.  Thus, you are using the quantum capacity of mind to manifest immediately, or through the development of time, that which you seek.

How is it that when you call into existence from the universe, your right and perfect mate, your right and perfect home, your right and perfect children, your right and perfect job, your right and perfect relationships that these come into being?  And when they do, you thank God, which is appropriate, because God provided all, 100% of the materials and resources to do that—even you and your mind.  When you enter into your morontial career, through some of those life experiences, you will be given more capacity to manipulate this energy in laboratories.  You already have the capacity, but you will be trained how to use and direct the mental action to create things.  You will not be creating them out of nothingness, surely that is impossible, only God has done that from the eternal mind that It is.  Are you beginning to see these two positions that you live in now, sir?  (MMc:  Yes.)

God Centered Metaphysics

This is what some call “God Centered Metaphysics,” and what mind holds, mind can out-form.  So, it is important that you hold in mind, the greatest possible good that you can—and even more!  Because, your mind of awareness, as conscious as it is, it is still limited by what it knows and what it can conceive.  It is from the lack of information and education and training of your mind that you do not have a higher capacity to create that which is beneficial to you—time and training that will occur.

Developing experiences into wisdom

What you are also receiving and earning on this world is experience.  You must have developed your experiences into wisdom—eternal wisdom—truth, beauty and goodness to express your minds in ways that produces good for yourself, for others and your circumstances, and for the universe.  When you do this, you have made a huge leap from being a limited mortal to the almost limitless capacity of your infinite mind.  These brief 80 years, approximately, that you walk the earth is time to use wisely, to reserve those times of reflections to think of your experiences in terms of lessons, to grow experientially and to learn the wisdom of living your life as an individual, life with others, life with a civilization and to know your responsibilities in it.  Those individuals who have gone awry in their lives have discovered this in a negative way.  They become God-like in the most despicable ways; they have learned how to express the weaknesses of humanity in a means that is contrary to the God-like resources they were given in their life.

You have begun to discover in your question, sir, that you and others have the capacity to grow immensely.  It is beyond us to understand why individuals would conceive or wish to pursue evil, iniquitous ways of living, as it is so limited!  It is so egocentric!  It is so selfish.  It is so self-destructive.  Whereas with choosing to do God’s Will, inviting God to bring God’s Will into your life as opportunities for living and development, you have an unlimited capacity to become God-like in your own being through your ascendant career in your journey to Paradise and your reception into the Corps of Finality.

MMc:  Thank you.

Susan:  I think I have a question.  I’m not sure I am going to be able to formulate it, but I’d like to give it a try.

The hierarchy of values

In a previous discussion, I had some questions about bringing spirituality into the social sustainability project.  I think I struggled because of my assumptions.  I’m still thinking about that cultural drift we have, and I realize that it is very secular, where everyone’s thoughts, everyone’s ideas are equal, everyone’s perceptions are equal, and not really allowing for a hierarchy of values that is very secular, whereas in the spiritual approach to life, there is a hierarchy of values.  I don’t think I am developing this question well, but I’m wondering if that’s part of why the spiritual needs to be brought into social sustainability, to fight that sort of secular drift, where everyone’s thoughts and perceptions are valued equally and they are not challenged in relation to higher values?

CHARLES:  Excellent question!  First of all, you would have to be very socially ignorant not to realize that there is a hierarchy of values, even in the secular realm, and that those values can be recognized through positive social action and personal decision-making.  Higher values lead you to be altruistic; higher values lead you to be compassionate; higher values lead you to be tolerant.  And so, you see a huge difference between racial bigotry and those who are inclusive.  Do not accept the secular notion that all values are equal; this is a fallacy of an un-evolved mind.  Second of all, in your instruction to others about spirituality, to those people who are secular in nature, spirituality does not necessarily include a belief in God, for those people who are secular in nature.

There is absolute secularism, and then there is holistic secularism.  Holistic secularism includes your historic educational principles that oftentimes the sum of some situations is greater than the total of the numbers.  You would be well advised to do some research for those expressions and this will lead you to the awareness that within a group you have more there than just a number of people.  Workmen work together in pairs in many work situations because the accomplishment of two is oftentimes equal to three or four who are working separately.  This is the foundation of holistic secularism, and that there is something about the aggregate that is greater than the sum of the numbers.

You would have to be almost a pillar of stone not to feel the grandeur standing next to a giant sequoia.  This is truly palpable; this is why many are so in awe of the red wood forests of California.  Those forests feel like holy ground.  It feels as though there is a living presence that is more than just the cells and trunk and limbs and needles of those trees, and it is true.  There is an esprit that exists among people; there is an esprit in humanity.  Consciousness, which is recognized by secularists, cannot be measured, cannot be painted, cannot be stapled to the wall, yet it exists.  It exists out of time; it exists in and out of the temporal, dimensional universe.  It is that in quantum physics grabs those creative particles that can be formed into what will become.


The threat of secularism is dead; it is a dead religion.  One would want to know why a secularist would have children; there is almost absolutely no reason to have children if you are a strict secularist.  What is the connection between two individuals, the mother and father, the mother and child, the father and child, and the union of those three into a family?  There is a consciousness that is greater than the sum of the three.  And so, this is the spirituality which you must structure in your writing and your thinking and your speech in discussions with those who are secularists to help them bridge the gap.  As you know, we do not sell religion.  We do not proselytize religion.  We do, at the very least, suggest to people that there is more to the universe than just themselves and the planets, that there is something beyond the sum of all humanity on your world that creates race consciousness, planetary consciousness.  If they cannot accept that, then you have little in common with them, dear.

Susan:  Charles, thank you for that answer; you’ve got my wheels turning some more and I know I’m going to have some more questions in a future discussion, but this is very enlightening for me.

CHARLES:  We look forward to your questions.

If you have completed your cycle of questions, dear ones, then let us close this session for today.  Where there is much to do for many of you, is not what we are doing here is less important, but that you live on a material, dimensional, temporal world, and there are many things to do, people to see and so on.  Realize, dear ones, as you read these words, that you are part of the whole.  You can only escape if you deny its reality.  And when you escape, then you escape from the fold of God and to nothingness that is not even eternal.  This relationship we have is formative, it is developmental, it is generative with the highest capacity that you have within yourself to create and re-invent yourself in the image and likeness of Christ Michael and Nebadonia.  We would not be in discussions with you if we did not see that in you.  Good day.